Comments on: Patriots to the Orange Limit http://www.gaditaub.com/eblog/patriots-to-the-orange-limit/ Gadi Taub's Site and Occassional Blog Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:31:46 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.4 by: jose http://www.gaditaub.com/eblog/patriots-to-the-orange-limit/#comment-31 Sat, 02 Sep 2006 08:30:33 +0000 http://www.gaditaub.com/eblog/patriots-to-the-orange-limit/#comment-31 if bib was the PM in this war, we would have seen your real patriotism! sure! leftists only support leftist gov, thats your real democracy! spain if bib was the PM in this war, we would have seen your real patriotism! sure! leftists only support leftist gov, thats your real democracy!

spain

]]> by: rlandes http://www.gaditaub.com/eblog/patriots-to-the-orange-limit/#comment-28 Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:15:23 +0000 http://www.gaditaub.com/eblog/patriots-to-the-orange-limit/#comment-28 Sarah's comment touches on a larger issue which may be that the very elements with which we think about this: left-right; religious-secular may make things worse. People on the left often remind those of us who complain about how serious the problems are with islamist hatred that we have a tendency to stereotype and generalize. But maybe you have done so as well about the "religious right." Sure there are tendencies that seem worrisome -- what culture under the kinds of pressures Israel is under wouldn't produce some aggressive religiosities? But when it comes to dogmatic adherence to disappointed millennial hopes, the left is at least as susceptible as the right. My sense is that the patriotism that lies at the heart of both the zionist "secular" and religious love of the land and of freedom in that land is decisively the same, and the political arguments over what that land is, with the awful and divisive consequences in how one chooses a policy (and political bedmates). i think the most valuable direction that both israelis and american jews can move in is to drop the traditional shibboleths like right and left. there is a patriotism that can both exalt and self-criticize, and there are pathologies to <i>both</i> tendencies. Sarah’s comment touches on a larger issue which may be that the very elements with which we think about this: left-right; religious-secular may make things worse. People on the left often remind those of us who complain about how serious the problems are with islamist hatred that we have a tendency to stereotype and generalize. But maybe you have done so as well about the “religious right.” Sure there are tendencies that seem worrisome — what culture under the kinds of pressures Israel is under wouldn’t produce some aggressive religiosities? But when it comes to dogmatic adherence to disappointed millennial hopes, the left is at least as susceptible as the right.

My sense is that the patriotism that lies at the heart of both the zionist “secular” and religious love of the land and of freedom in that land is decisively the same, and the political arguments over what that land is, with the awful and divisive consequences in how one chooses a policy (and political bedmates). i think the most valuable direction that both israelis and american jews can move in is to drop the traditional shibboleths like right and left.

there is a patriotism that can both exalt and self-criticize, and there are pathologies to both tendencies.

]]> by: Sarah http://www.gaditaub.com/eblog/patriots-to-the-orange-limit/#comment-26 Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:58:37 +0000 http://www.gaditaub.com/eblog/patriots-to-the-orange-limit/#comment-26 I'm a bit confused by your premise. After Olmert told the media that the Lebanon war would provide "momentum for the convergence plan," many right-wing, settler soldiers who were fighting the war signed a petition condemning his remarks -- he was, after all, saying that the homes of those very soldiers were more likely to be evacuated -- but they did not leave their posts. With only a handful of exeptions, most of the settler soldiers continued to fight in Lebanon, per the government's orders, despite their anger at Olmert. So, how is that "patriotism only insofar as it promotes settlement"? I’m a bit confused by your premise.

After Olmert told the media that the Lebanon war would provide “momentum for the convergence plan,” many right-wing, settler soldiers who were fighting the war signed a petition condemning his remarks — he was, after all, saying that the homes of those very soldiers were more likely to be evacuated — but they did not leave their posts. With only a handful of exeptions, most of the settler soldiers continued to fight in Lebanon, per the government’s orders, despite their anger at Olmert.

So, how is that “patriotism only insofar as it promotes settlement”?

]]> by: Fabian http://www.gaditaub.com/eblog/patriots-to-the-orange-limit/#comment-25 Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:57:07 +0000 http://www.gaditaub.com/eblog/patriots-to-the-orange-limit/#comment-25 Gadi: kol ha cabod! I like what you write. I didn't know you from before and I see that your blog is new. I wish you all the luck and keep writing. See you, Fabian Of the Art of Crossing the Oceans fabitas.blogspot.com Gadi: kol ha cabod!
I like what you write. I didn’t know you from before and I see that your blog is new. I wish you all the luck and keep writing.

See you,
Fabian
Of the Art of Crossing the Oceans
fabitas.blogspot.com

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